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I'm poly and was recently exploring a relationship that would have been both long distance and definitely not primary for any of us but did seem like a nice idea. Upon telling my potential sweety that I was an atheist, and describing my particular views that people are responsible to themselves to act morally and kindly to others based soley on their own inherent responsibility without needing religion or dieties to make that happen,
I was met with a horrified..."I could never have a relationship with someone who didn't understand spirituality". Understand, this is not a traditional bible thumper, mainstream old time religion type, but someone who considers herself Wiccan, and talks of two particular goddesses she likes to lean on for help.
Do you find that even among friends who have alternative spiritual views and practices, that atheism is often treated with shocked disbelief, as well as quite a bit of derision. Sort of a "if you don't believe you can't be spiritual, and therefore are a lesser human being because of it" type of attitude. I'm trying not to be angry, but I was shocked at the predjudicial sting of this attitude.
I was met with a horrified..."I could never have a relationship with someone who didn't understand spirituality". Understand, this is not a traditional bible thumper, mainstream old time religion type, but someone who considers herself Wiccan, and talks of two particular goddesses she likes to lean on for help.
Do you find that even among friends who have alternative spiritual views and practices, that atheism is often treated with shocked disbelief, as well as quite a bit of derision. Sort of a "if you don't believe you can't be spiritual, and therefore are a lesser human being because of it" type of attitude. I'm trying not to be angry, but I was shocked at the predjudicial sting of this attitude.
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Re: relationships
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 10:03 PMAll believers are threated by non-belief. Whatever it is they believe is important to them and our non-acceptance casts a dark shadow that could burst their little bubble; the more they might know and respect you, the more true this would be. If you believed in some alternate idea that similarly lacked rational support, you would not be a threat because at least you accepted the premise that important things can be discerned via mystical/emotional/spiritual routes.
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Re: relationships
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 10:14 PMI think it's hard for people because it's truly an alien idea.
Most have never taken *any* time to see, learn or experience a non-believing viewpoint. Maybe it's easier for me to empathize because I was an absolute believer once myself. I can almost assure you that she has never thought about it and has many erroneous biases and stereotypes. Remember that all those systems teach that human beings (humanity) can't do it alone. And IMO, that is very self-serving because it makes one dependent on a supernatural (and absolute) system of belief and usually some type of church, temple, cult, etc.
I tend to say that much of our moral systems are born out of evolutionary behavior. Our moral basis is baked into us. Of course this brings up nature vs. nurture questions but I'm happy to explore those questions as well.
I'm sorry she was not open minded enough. It does sting. It's usually one of the first questions I'll ask a women, albeit in a non-direct way.
Try to find women that are biologists or philosophy grads. They tend to be non-believers more times than not.
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Re: relationships
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 10:31 PMAs a slightly off topic aside, this same (non) relationship has caused me to start a new tribe for people who are said to be too intense. Please check it out if you like
tribes.tribe.net/intensecity
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Re: relationships
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 4:50 PMI've also noticed that a lot of people don't think/believe that you can be a moral person outside of the framework of some religion. They also don't seem to think/believe that an atheist can possibly understand their spirituality. It's my viewpoint that atheists are better able to understand other's spirituality because we all have, to some extent or another, examined the various systems and judged them to be not for us. Atheism is as radically different from Wicca as it is from Buddhism or Juddaism or any other religion. Each religion is also different from each other, sometimes radically so.
Has your Potential never had a conversation with someone who didn't believe the same things he/she did? Does he/she have any non-Wiccan friends or relatives. How does he/she reconcile them? The observances of the Wicca are not only not practiced by, say, the Christians but are considered wrong to the point of taking action to stamp them out. How does he/she explain that?
Do you respect his/her beliefs, even if you don't share them? You obviously like what his/her beliefs have molded them into, but it doesn't sound like they are reciprocating. Every religion or philosophy says in one form or another "I'm right and you're wrong", why is this any different?
You've described your philosophy, your morality, with your Potential. If they are having problems with how you derived it, but not what it says, maybe this relationship shouldn't happen. Go ahead and try to work through it, but if you can't it will be a constant sore point as long as you're together.
I wish you luck!
John -
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Re: relationships
Thu, March 30, 2006 - 1:19 PMhi. new here.
i think all religion, be they new age, old age, alternative, alternative to white people from the middle class but really traditional to people in some "eastern" country.... i think all religion is essentially the same in that it is based on the belief that there are other forces incontrol. i'm not surprised at your wicken "friend". she is simply saying her beliefs are very important to her.
as a godless atheist, i am actually pretty tolerant to other people's beliefs and could get with someone who was not an atheist, but not if i thought they were not at least questioning religion and the existance of god(s)(ess)(es). if there's no possibility that the person might convert to atheism in the future, then i can't really consider a serious romantic partnership with them.
you might also search the anarchist/communist types. they tend to be intellectual AND godless....
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